Thanks for your latest post Tony. Stimulating as always. But in the end I think you've been far too kind to the 'low congregationalists' (as you call them). In attempting to drive down the middle of the fairway (how deliciously "via media" of you!) I think you may've created a false dichotomy? You seem to imply that in order to do justice to the apostolic ministry that happens 'between and beyond' some "low congregationalism" thinking needs to be embraced. But I would argue that you can be a thorough-going high-congregationalist and still have a robust commitment to the work of God outside and beyond the congregation. But rather than trying to talk about this 'between and beyond' work under the heading of 'church', we high-congregationalists might talk about that work under the heading of 'fellowship' instead (as you mention yourself). I would argue that the NT concept of 'fellowship' allows us to be faithful to the Bible's high congregationalism without (falsely) presuming that all the work of God must take place within the congregation. I likewise conclude that low-congregationalism has (falsely) presumed that we have to somehow think of all the work of God taking place, somehow, through the "church". Clearly I'm out in the rough to the right of the fairway!! I have a sneaking suspicion you'd really like to flirt with the trees on the right as well but you're trying too hard to be nice to your friends. :-) (I'm being very cheeky of course).
Yes, this is perceptive of you Simon. Where I’m wanting to land, and I’m not sure I’ve expressed it well enough in the article, is pretty much what you’re articulating. Maintain the congregation at the centre of things but be creative about how we work ‘beyond and between’. (And I even had a little joke about my via media approach in the first draft of the piece, but then took it out!)
I'm with Simon that I think you can be a high-congregationalist and still have a robust commitment to the work of God outside and beyond the congregation.
I wonder about how pastoring works in the low-congregationalist model.
It's true that someone will help them at Maturity or Mission, but who is walking with/ apprenticing them besides the system?
Also, are we better to describe the work outside and beyond as "partnering in the gospel" or "word based ministry"? What I mean is that we work together across congregations for gospel ends.
I think that high-congregationalists take responsibility for discipling the physical gathering in a specific location.
As I said, I'm thinking out loud and I'm happy to be challenged
Hi Phill. Great to hear from you. You’ve put your finger on what is perhaps the key issue in this debate— the nature and span of pastoral responsibility. It’s a topic that needs a whole discussion on its own (It’s on my list!)
Oh, and $70 is a great investment to keep you writing and stimulating me to think
Thanks for your latest post Tony. Stimulating as always. But in the end I think you've been far too kind to the 'low congregationalists' (as you call them). In attempting to drive down the middle of the fairway (how deliciously "via media" of you!) I think you may've created a false dichotomy? You seem to imply that in order to do justice to the apostolic ministry that happens 'between and beyond' some "low congregationalism" thinking needs to be embraced. But I would argue that you can be a thorough-going high-congregationalist and still have a robust commitment to the work of God outside and beyond the congregation. But rather than trying to talk about this 'between and beyond' work under the heading of 'church', we high-congregationalists might talk about that work under the heading of 'fellowship' instead (as you mention yourself). I would argue that the NT concept of 'fellowship' allows us to be faithful to the Bible's high congregationalism without (falsely) presuming that all the work of God must take place within the congregation. I likewise conclude that low-congregationalism has (falsely) presumed that we have to somehow think of all the work of God taking place, somehow, through the "church". Clearly I'm out in the rough to the right of the fairway!! I have a sneaking suspicion you'd really like to flirt with the trees on the right as well but you're trying too hard to be nice to your friends. :-) (I'm being very cheeky of course).
Yes, this is perceptive of you Simon. Where I’m wanting to land, and I’m not sure I’ve expressed it well enough in the article, is pretty much what you’re articulating. Maintain the congregation at the centre of things but be creative about how we work ‘beyond and between’. (And I even had a little joke about my via media approach in the first draft of the piece, but then took it out!)
Hi Tony,
I'm thinking out loud here.
I'm with Simon that I think you can be a high-congregationalist and still have a robust commitment to the work of God outside and beyond the congregation.
I wonder about how pastoring works in the low-congregationalist model.
It's true that someone will help them at Maturity or Mission, but who is walking with/ apprenticing them besides the system?
Also, are we better to describe the work outside and beyond as "partnering in the gospel" or "word based ministry"? What I mean is that we work together across congregations for gospel ends.
I think that high-congregationalists take responsibility for discipling the physical gathering in a specific location.
As I said, I'm thinking out loud and I'm happy to be challenged
Hi Phill. Great to hear from you. You’ve put your finger on what is perhaps the key issue in this debate— the nature and span of pastoral responsibility. It’s a topic that needs a whole discussion on its own (It’s on my list!)