I'm still not convinced by the text of box 6, but only from the perspective of ease of memorisation and of clarity. So, under the 'our way', if you remove the line breaks and indenting, then the sentence doesn't really flow. Namely: "Our way: reject God as ruler, by living our own way, damage ourselves, each other and the world, facing death and judgement". It's a shorthand, but seems clunky. Could it be better to go:
Our way:
- we reject God as ruler
- by living our own way
- which damages ourselves, each other, and the world
- so we face death and judgement
Or another alternative that is punchier...
Our way:
- reject God as ruler
- live our own way
- damage ourselves, each other, and the world
- face death and judgement
...but that loses the causality of each clause...
However, having four verbs is an easier way to remember this... so point six is "Our way... reject... live... damage... face death..." etc.
And the same applies to the 'God's way' bit in the second half of point 6.
I'm not sure I've got the best solution here, but maybe this observation might help make some excellent updates even better...?
Will default to your prayerful wisdoms however moving away from Romans 3 in Point 2 ouch, not convinced.
Great verses to show where every single one of us stood with God. Hopelessness. None are righteous, none seek, none understands. Hard words but cut straight through all arguments (on just about everything) and puts us in our fallen state no matter who or what we are on equal footing.
Maybe I’d better Better bulk buy some of the old versions ;)
I may have told you I didn't have a problem with the old 2WTL and still use it verbally and with written versions. Nevertheless I think the new version reads well and sharpens a few aspects of the older version(s).
Perhaps, unrelated, but last time I spoke with you I commented on Sam Chan's Evangelism in a Skeptical World and its assertions about 2WTL - you have of course commented on this in a couple of posts. I was listening to John Dixon's Undeceptions podcast in which Sam was a guest speaking about his new book 'How to Speak about Jesus - without being that guy' and it felt almost Deja Vu (Ecoute ?) - this straw man dumping Gospel downloads on unsuspecting victims, treating them as 'marks' and not people, as opposed to befriending them and earning some future right to share Jesus with them.
I felt like 2WTL sharers are these agenda-laden information overloaders - maybe I am reading too much in to this, what do you think ?
Thanks for all your work, Tony. In small ways I seek to share some of your thinking with my pastor and an elder I meet with regularly - we have read through The Trellis and the Vine and have begun tackling The Vine Project .
Have a restful Christmas and a hope-filled New Year
Hi Tony,
I do like the Isaiah verses - not sure if that's because of Colin or not as per Jodie.
With point 5 I wonder if it would be punchier (more memorable? if it was 4 discrete sentences?
God raised Jesus to life again as the Ruler and Judge of the world.
Jesus Has conquered death.
Jesus (or He) now brings forgiveness and new life.
Jesus (or He) will return in glory. (should "to judge" be added hear? or is that too much).
Just some thoughts. Thanks for your commitment and effort Tony.
I'm still not convinced by the text of box 6, but only from the perspective of ease of memorisation and of clarity. So, under the 'our way', if you remove the line breaks and indenting, then the sentence doesn't really flow. Namely: "Our way: reject God as ruler, by living our own way, damage ourselves, each other and the world, facing death and judgement". It's a shorthand, but seems clunky. Could it be better to go:
Our way:
- we reject God as ruler
- by living our own way
- which damages ourselves, each other, and the world
- so we face death and judgement
Or another alternative that is punchier...
Our way:
- reject God as ruler
- live our own way
- damage ourselves, each other, and the world
- face death and judgement
...but that loses the causality of each clause...
However, having four verbs is an easier way to remember this... so point six is "Our way... reject... live... damage... face death..." etc.
And the same applies to the 'God's way' bit in the second half of point 6.
I'm not sure I've got the best solution here, but maybe this observation might help make some excellent updates even better...?
Perhaps in point 4 the word iniquity from Isaiah may need to be explained, also in point 6 the word wrath?
Hi Tony.
Some feedback to suggested changes.
Will default to your prayerful wisdoms however moving away from Romans 3 in Point 2 ouch, not convinced.
Great verses to show where every single one of us stood with God. Hopelessness. None are righteous, none seek, none understands. Hard words but cut straight through all arguments (on just about everything) and puts us in our fallen state no matter who or what we are on equal footing.
Maybe I’d better Better bulk buy some of the old versions ;)
Keep up the great work.
S.
Hi Tony
I may have told you I didn't have a problem with the old 2WTL and still use it verbally and with written versions. Nevertheless I think the new version reads well and sharpens a few aspects of the older version(s).
Perhaps, unrelated, but last time I spoke with you I commented on Sam Chan's Evangelism in a Skeptical World and its assertions about 2WTL - you have of course commented on this in a couple of posts. I was listening to John Dixon's Undeceptions podcast in which Sam was a guest speaking about his new book 'How to Speak about Jesus - without being that guy' and it felt almost Deja Vu (Ecoute ?) - this straw man dumping Gospel downloads on unsuspecting victims, treating them as 'marks' and not people, as opposed to befriending them and earning some future right to share Jesus with them.
I felt like 2WTL sharers are these agenda-laden information overloaders - maybe I am reading too much in to this, what do you think ?
Thanks for all your work, Tony. In small ways I seek to share some of your thinking with my pastor and an elder I meet with regularly - we have read through The Trellis and the Vine and have begun tackling The Vine Project .
Have a restful Christmas and a hope-filled New Year
Yours appreciatively
Steve M